Enabling Innovation with Normet, Amer Sports & OP Financial Group | DK&A Creative Conversations

Enabling Innovation with Normet, Amer Sports & OP Financial Group | DK&A Creative Conversations


few weeks ago I was asked on a video
interview how do you define quality of life I guess this question was related to the fact that our company mission statement
is to improve the quality of life and now the guy doing the interview wanted
to hear what it means to me personally after some painful thinking I came up
with two sentences: I want to get out of the bed every day and truly love my life.
I want to love my work and the people I get to share my life and work with then
after saying this I was like this sounds somehow familiar and in its simplicity
this very same idea was the founding energy to establish this company to
improve and help ourselves to have better quality of life – that you don’t
need to hate yourself in the morning and share your days with
assholes. These feelings were overwhelming for Ville and myself back in
2015 and 16 and thank God for that because sometimes frustration is the
best creative energy there is to innovate and start moving mountains and
since from the beginning of this frustration we have been building this
company around the people. I hate to say this but that was pretty new to
me being hired CEO for exit driven companies already three times before
they came a my thinking was really dominated by
other factors like the short-term parameters and especially the increase
in shareholder value and I think we have some people who actually can say yes
here also for this – but anyway that kind of is totally different style of leading
a company than what we’ve been doing with DK&A from the beginning and
looking the past achievements and excluding the happy owners none of the
previous experiences left an unforgettable good taste in your mouth
we were not feeling definite pride about the M&A outcomes and most importantly
the employees did not see the obvious benefits from those moves – quite many
left the companies that were coming out of these acquisitions but this time we decided to do this totally differently to turn things upside down
start from the people. Our manifesto was “good finance so performance should
be an outcome of create culture and even creator people”. So what does it mean for
example for the CEO how does it differ to run a people company versus the past
experiences those were professional service consulting companies not run by
androids or robots but people, right? Well, in short many aspects. One big change was who do you follow who do you trust and who do you respect and I mean
that who do you actually take the advice from so I was very eager guy to
research and and follow these guys like Jack Wells, Jim Collins, John Potter,
Michael Porter all these guys. They were great for 25 years, I really was keen
to read their stuff and participated in some of their
seminars and stuff but these guys needed to be put in the back seat of our company
library – new kids on the block have taken the driver’s seat. Since 2015 we’ve
been studying literally hundreds of books about studies about psychology,
neurology, evolution theory and all kinds of research around human behavior. Why on
earth could we do something like this well to simply understand the human
operating system and that is the driving force that we actually been following
since the first days of this company to establish and able to
understand a common language for the culture and values we want to preserve
and thrive as of now we have concluded that we want to be able to build a work
environment where people could collectively feel psychological safety ownership, motivation and desire to
perform – in short to have a culture where people voluntarily want to give their
best – this is what we call craftsmanship culture When people choose to do what
they love they typically become very good at what they do they
don’t get bored even if they repeat because they want to become even better
they want to improve the quality of their craft and they never stop this
kind of obsessive work philosophy is at the heart of the matter of craftsmanship
the desire to do a job well for its own sake the desire to deliver Minimum Viable Magic one thing we collectively missed
at the last organization many of us here share a past at and that was the lack of the ownership
that culture did not systematically support empowerment or responsibility so
it was impossible to feel ownership this by the way is a very common problem in
large organizations – the craftsmanship culture as we see it is based on people
being fully in charge and accountable for their tasks
fully engaged every one of us need to own the challenge or problem we have at
hand and we need to feel pride in the deliverables and in the effort we put
into the client assignment to the point that each and every one of us is willing
to put his or her signature on the outcome indicating an unflinching
commitment to the product or service we are delivering. Our aim as a company is
to deliver Minimum Viable Magic in other words build digital products and
services that not only meet the technical criteria but also engage our
clients and users emotionally we believe that ultimately the only way to become
better than your competitors is to have stronger company culture. Hey let me give
you an example of Minimum Viable Magic what we have here is a small souvenir
that all of you will get when you leave the building. Inside you will have
a product – a Minimum Viable Magic product some 170 kilometers from here in
the center of natural region in Heinola we have we have a small subsidiary
with 150,000 employees which have made a great and remarkable job for us to
actually be able to give you this when you leave this place. Our deal is very
clear as I keep them alive and they keep producing this stuff so that’s my little
hobby and now we actually first time ever we actually give you the first
batch of this year’s production which was
actually amazingly large so I assume that the culture is working there as
well but anyway I would love to give a hand to
our 150,000 employees up there that they have produced us this. Thank you! I have a few great guests joining me today in this conversation I’m just I’m not going
to be just talking alone so without further ado please welcome on the stage
Tuomas Manninen from OP, Sanna Pekari from Normet and Antti Kujala from Amer Sport All right – so I guess we
could start from introductions so if you guys want to say a few words about where
you where you come from and what you do who you are. yes so my name is Sanna
Pekari I’ve come from company called Normet it’s a Finnish company but I
could say that most probably none of you know what we’re actually producing and
we are expertise on spray spraying and and also plastic so that’s kind of
equipment that goes under mine my role in Normet is that we are every third
year we are doubling ourselves so we have we have definite a quote company
and my role is there to be a CEO and our strategy is actually that nest next grow
comes through the digital services and that’s kind of my my role to in any
enable that alright hello my name is Tuomas Manninen and I’m a head of design and
customers experience at OP so the largest finders of a company in Finland,
running team of designers or say design guild or out 100 designers within the
company about 60 people on my team and rest of the 40 around they’re around
they are there other organizations so what I why I go to work every morning is
to change the the OP culture from very product and IT centric to be a
customer centric company. Hi guys my name is Antti Kujala I head the design
team Amer Sport I’m leading all the digital activities for Amer Sports
as well as Suunto and we’re trying to make I’m a sports ready for
the digital transformation it’s a huge company of a lot of international sports
brands with come from the analog background if you will and we trying to
convert those guys to be ready for the digital world if you will cool you are
all here for a specific reason and I think what’s what’s interesting with the
three of you is that you all come from different organizations doing obviously
different things but you’re also kind of in a different position or level of
maturity when it comes to this whole transformation business so those for
example you were employee number one back in the day in the design and
customer experience area and you’ve obviously witnessed like a quite massive
transformation already back then and now OB has publicly stated that you’re
transforming to enterprise agile and you’re probably going to come up with
your own interpretation or adaptation of it with the power of six thousand people
so I think that that’s quite the transformation whereas under for example
you come come from a company that is in a challenger position in a fairly mature
industry shall we say and you’ve grown superfast you you are basically like
growing like massively but then again you’re a fairly new player with maybe
less legacy than some of your competitors and in this whole industry
4.0 context with IOT being like a regular part of your everyday and so
forth and you’ve also as a person seen like another kind of transformation
being in the early steps of Stora Enso back in the day and then untii you lead
the design of connected devices and digital services at a global consumer
conglomerate so to speak and all your responsibilities past for example like a
whole group of well-known brands such as soon
solomon peak performance and so forth if I understood correctly it’s your role
also not to just look at singular brands or products but rather look through that
portfolio create like a horizon there so I think that that that provides like a
great starting point interesting perspectives for today’s conversation so
as the theme loosely today’s sustainable innovation let’s
let’s spice that up with like long term innovation and the premise is that the
world is obviously changing a lot and maybe faster and faster at the same time
we see in many areas that the quality of for example the digital touch points
that we all as industry players delivered to the customers the quality
of that has risen quite a lot thus making for example differentiation like
harder and harder like like kind of by the day so my conclusion is that we must
innovate more and must innovate faster but at the same time we need to increase
increase the quality of that said innovation and that’s not necessarily a
challenge is it assault so do you agree how do you how do you feel about what
are your sentiments on this I think first of all if you talk about
innovation you need to define what the horizon innovation you do do so and that
Chase is also so for example from our business payments like five years ago
were the most poorest or like boring stuff that you know you could if
somebody went okay you need to design new payment systems like oh it’s the IT
legacy stuff and if you look at the payments nowadays it’s like all the
technology just brings a like you know facial recognition or Apple is doing
around payments and so on that’s suddenly the coolest thing in financial
sector where the innovation happens so I think there’s kind of this because the
horizons are the innovation horizons are not stable then it becomes really
interesting because one day it might be very boring a stable business within a
year or two it’s kinda coolest most innovative place where you have so
I it’s it’s you know it’s I’m struggling with the kind of 80/20 or 70-20-10 I got
of framework where you kind of divide your time to you know incremental
development versus some doing something new because I think you can’t divide
things like that because of you know constantly changing business landscape
fully agree with you about the innovations and how you can split it and
to you to you agree on the quality of the innovation but I actually hate that
bird in the base and because that means that you go some way out of your
business for me the best innovation is actually it’s not incremental change
it’s really understanding the customer side stepping in seeing how they behave
what are their challenges and trying to solve the customer problem in a
different totally different way that you have used to and of course that means
that you are forgetting about your product or your services and you’re
really kind of innovating from customer perspective your own value proposition
towards the customer but the quality has to be there and I am kind of glad that
we are little bit going past about this innovation where all the companies we
measured how many innovations how many ideas they’re getting and really seeing
that okay now it’s time to step in and look at the quality of the innovation
and what that actually is the outcome I would come to the customer yeah totally
and I think also the quality it quality’s important also for us but and
I think the relevance so whatever we do it should be relevant we trying to make
sports more accessible for people and to understand that what really makes
difference for people in kind of getting more out of this pause an adventure for
example we saw though that you know the quality combined with relevance is
that’s why I think is kind of the sustainable design coming from so a
couple of hard parts of things came up their quality and relevance and then
sentiment mentioned like measurable things so
how would you measure that what what does it say for example for like let’s
say leadership model so structure from the organization to do this how is your
work measured my work is measured say various other my colleagues in the
leadership team so it’s it’s basically the customer satisfaction customer
retention revenue sales a PITA so exactly the same financial measures of
course they are what Tom talked about short measure so it’s it’s a little bit
hard on on measuring things that don’t really exist today but that’s actually
the the way to see that that very short time you can see that that especially at
the customer cost the by measures that the change is happening when you’re
contributing and you’re working meet the customer yeah we’re still trying I think
we use and still like traditional measures like NPS we’re trying to be
really good at that but we all know that that doesn’t really that’s know enough
so recently we trying to put more and more effort on like how we measure how
we already designed the stairs or design trying to realize what we’re trying to
achieve what will be the impact or something create and then teach our
design is also to kind of design the data are front like decide what will be
won’t be my greatest measure for this job I’m undoing and then I’ll get return
of investment for that job and we kind of still at the learning stage but
that’s kind of our internally in the team we like to measure things yeah we
we are as a coal company with it is all in enterprise agile are talking about
customer value which is obviously very nice thing as a designer that the whole
company in the business is measured around customer value and that is
something that we need to educate for the rest of the organization what does
it mean because in many cases yeah well in many cases well if you talk
about the customer whether you might have functional value emotional value
you might have financial value emotional or symbolic value but then if you have a
discussion with the kind of a senior business leader you might talk about the
customer value but then you find out that actually he starts to walk about
customer experience not customer value which is a different thing and then when
it’s a further you realized that he is talking about or she is talking about
customer satisfaction which is like inside-out view on the customer
experience so you want that with this kind of a concept of different you know
worse Suites your stuff okay let’s you know let’s go back and when we talk
about the customer value measuring customer value you need to define quite
basic things before actually I could say that my work or my team’s work is
measured by customer bother you because the rest of the company doesn’t have it
totally various meaning of customer bother you basically have to get your
kind of you have to build an agreement within the organization of what do we
mean by certain things what is a customer and how do we if value is prism
or customer value like a compound value what does it actually come from and
that’s kind of a starting point so that we’re all on the same page in terms of
how we understand these different things and just kind of you know we never side
noted that as a kind of in-house designer I’ve always said that as part
of your role is doing design or you know whatever you’re doing that’s that’s part
of the path but you have as much work to do the transformation teaching Reds or
educating resteth organized into their organization meaning what what is what
does it mean to be customer centric how do you measure a customer value and
stuff and then that’s I think a big difference for a person who comes from
for example from a company like you guys like from my agency side to in-house
that actually there’s a lot to education to do when you are kind of in-house
designer yeah yeah I also gonna feel that they’re kind of Salesforce is
though they still kind of the target to to educate them to understand the
customer value and and that’s that’s definitely also our focus areas they’re
changing the way to sell but the first thing is to understand what is the value
of the product or service is what we are producing towards customer so exactly
the same thing yeah so when it comes to whether whether we’re talking about
understanding the or setting drivers or even measuring
what you guys are pretty unanimously saying that we should have changed the
mindset to like outside in and really let in a way what tom was saying there
what we how we operate is that we expect for example owners financial results to
be an outcome of doing things right so you kind of sound like you would agree
also in your organization’s of course and of course Italy developing digital
services and transformation it’s not something that happens in the next
quarter and you don’t really see it at a finance so you need to kind of search
for the weak signals that how do you know that you’re going into the right
direction and in our case like some of the weak signal is that we have certain
pilot customers and when next time that they actually ask for quote or RFP all
the requirements are there so then we see that hey this is something that they
value there’s probably an obvious answer to this but maybe not go ask anyway if
we talk about sort of long-term what setting up the operation so that this
can work then who should hone that operation within within a corporation is
it the head of design like Thomas or is it pup some somebody else or should
anybody own it that’s a good question because it owning what means kind of
owning who is the product of Strategos prorack manageable from the strategy
point of view that’s why I see that what are those companies that actually
succeed and what are those companies that fail is that you have to put an
ownership or or strata call product management into the position that goes
across the business lines goes across the areas and that’s kind of the place
where you can see the customer lifecycle you can see the product lifecycle if you
are within the past business line then you are kind of focusing on on just on
piece of the lifecycle but who is it in a company I guess that it depends quite
a lot in our case it’s the services because that’s where basically that’s be
happy sell very quickly six months but we actually maintain it
for thirty years so it’s kind of a bit in place to also own the customer
relations and experience in that sense and I think I’ve been some of us think
of the way and try and tell people that you know the CFO owns the way we do
marketing and the way we follow up costs but does the CFO actually own and they
see they he or she the owner responsible for the the result of the company no
it’s obvious you have product people you have marketing people have design people
there but he’s kind of if she’s the one that Mozilla theater tells the frame how
does he actually work and I’m kind of thinking a bit but I think I also
believe the product there needs to be a product ownership in a company but then
design I think has a big responsibility coding and how do you actually how do
you make those great products how do you make that experience happen and kind of
coaching so I’m all on a coaching leader myself at least practicing this
enterprise HR for eight months I guess I should say that you know it’s all about
self the tree where people sell privet tips and so forth so and actually I’m
having a Korean not necessarily daily but at least weekly debated on this one
and well we’re your people part of your business can be self driven and and so
on they are so certain things that you know should be managed as a whole is I’m
being one customer experience brand you know they’re solid please not the long
list but some list of things that you know even though P you know you have
tribes you have squats you have teams which are self treatment and and you
know making their own thing some things should be you know managed
or led by somebody and and I think as a company we are struggling with that at
the moment because we’re fully swinging towards Enterprise a child we’re talking
about you know an employee experience being you know self living and I said
self driven t team’s making their own you know setting their goals and going
to their goals where how they want to go at the same time you know we are
fragmenting for sample the customer experience below us
of this so what is the driver of of you know getting things done quickly
fragmenting the you know customer experience or putting some type buffer
you know as a layer of my half of managing or owning things on top of that
I’m going with a letter what but you know not necessarily big thick enough
maturity on on our organization on that that segues nicely insert into silos so
I want to get your take on your organization to almost touch that a
little bit so if we look at the sort of classic is unthinking sweet support of
design and technology and business by nicely coming together and the magic
happens happens in the sensor well you can think that data for example is is a
fourth thing that kind of cuts through everything and the big change that I
think many are trying to do is to break the silos there then you have agile
obviously you can’t talk about inventing new things nowadays nowadays if you
don’t talk about agile and I guess especially this Enterprise adaptations
of it which might also lead into silos so from the classic design thinking
perspective or from the agile perspective like where are you standing
today like are you are you siloed or other cross-disciplinary teams
cross-functional teams actually working on on these cool things ultimately I
think that might just be the only way to create true customer values of human
beings think of if I if I speak on our behalf for example what what we have
learned and so on but recently I think if we organize with we do have the
function some way i’m victor mister you need to lead design you can’t just let
it go i think you need to lead marketing lead to new product but we work and
truly indian kind of cross-disciplinary teams our prose is actually owned by
design and a synthetic by design but i think you you kind of need to think
about how you take the former in in the whole experience so i think and now
we’re learning we cannot be in the classical okay let’s get business and
product and and design together and kind of we kind of
and once we’ve done it I think Miko somebody my colleague who keeps
reminding me that okay yeah by the way what about customer care there’s another
function some way so I don’t think he ever ever kind of stops and then maybe
I’m not but it’s a simplistic thing that yes Anjali this is one way to make the
happen but I don’t think it ever stops so it start seeing these opportunities
everywhere in the organization it’s like you know it’s two things one is no
facilitating the kind of conversation or interaction between you know smart
people and the second thing is making decisions whatever structure around that
is it’s kind of secondary the primary is that you know you have right people and
you have somebody who actually calls when it start go and my obviously you
know putting in a perspective one hundred and fifteen year old very strong
aligned company going eight months to interpret cetera I can’t you know the
experience is so short compared to the you know the history that you know we
are still learning but you know earlier exist that you can create silos in in
many different ways and enterprise are Chinese as good as good as any other way
of organizing your stuff making silos and the second learning would be that at
least in our case is years I’ve been there with five and a half years all the
time business has been like you know yelling to R&D that you don’t you know
do stuff quickly enough you don’t you know create stuff that we are asking a
soul now where the business is actually leading also the development I think
they have had a couple of times where they have a look at the mirror that may
be the problem wasn’t that R&D but it wasn’t the business so I think that’s
very healthy that you know this is a makers actually realizes that that we
nearly need to you know work together but as we are or know kind of from
strength transformation and change process I would have also learned that
the design is kind of the diploma deep merci between the kind of IT technology
and business and that’s quite a nice spot to be it kind of truck be able to
you know speak the business language and the technology language and interpret
that to a customer language then you start finding your place in it in a kind
of a corporate world in a nice place so so I think all of us who are working
around you know customer insight or date that and can translate that to either
business or technology then we are good yes I think that’s a fairly nicely put
designers are diplomats it’s the number one soul that a designer of many would
sign this is that you use empathy and it’s kind of like a natural crawl to be
there to maybe facilitate that communication and to communicate for per
se cool hi there so there’s a couple of things that I
still want to touch we have a we have a few minutes left which are a little bit
about measuring and maybe it searched upon inside a bit so what kind of role
does this data and then maybe the information and the inside crunched out
of that data play in your organization like do you do you measure the outcome
of the things that you try to push like Allah and have you kind of crack the nut
of how to actually how to actually use set insights to further improve your
operation or your products for us the information is is basically the key so
there’s nothing else any information or data at the first stage so it’s how to
answer that would what did place but it’s it’s all about the data it’s all
about the insights it’s all about connecting different different
information sources but I also in my role is that’s been basically as you
said we are not mature in my industry so to you I throw in two years ago norm at
and first thing was that a but son first
thing is that what we need to develop his Network because underground there’s
no network is it ok fine that’s fine but that’s kind of a huge problem to solve
so because you need to have it 5 th set that I didn’t so we started just
collecting today a few years ago in a mining area and we don’t have that much
yet but the key thing is that as soon as you have something that you just
actually make it available because that’s the way that’s the kind of moment
of truth to see that thought is the value of the data and then and that’s
that’s how we are kind of planning to go forward is that now when we have done it
for two years that we bring it out we actually get three crystals ok this is
good our Lord so can I actually get on early when
something happens on micro Aikman and that kind of kind of tells us that how
we should actually develop the develop further it to be our survey say so but
the information there’s nothing else we’ve been going through interesting
journey so we’ll be working with these fantastic brands that are like full of
you go to any of the AMA sports brands they’re people who are enthusiasts so
you have like client pairs and trail instance skiers and who not what not so
the culture has been that we know the best
it sounds really but that’s that’s really being the culture of each of the
brand they’re like leading brands in the area so took a long time from us to
understand that ok just love my in my inside is actually consuming inside so
we kind of took even taken that step took awhile and I think it’s not only
recently I think the last year or two I think less than two years would be
really trying to understand what a day that actually mean to us that we’re
trying to educate our people like I say that design your own data so it’s a long
way super interesting to kind of grow in this in this kind of role and learn new
things but it’s a long way I have been lucky to have colleagues on our 20
function of years back where we are certified strategy function has market
intelligence but that customer insight and we as a designers we dwell do it
like that part of our job obviously and still do but kind of realizing quite
quickly that that’s not very clean secondly you know in the corporate world
you should be able to focus on certain stuff and rest you know the other stuff
should be done by some other experts so we actually three years ago for this
customer insight function like fully supporting our design function so that
whether you are doing kind of the strategical design that you had need to
have different type of you know inside versus you know tactical operational
design so data is really relevant at the operational level for us but then when
you start thinking about okay what should power serve service be for you
know for housing for next five years then you need some other type of for
inside and I’m really lucky that we have a kind of next to the design we have
this customer inside function it six people working full-time on this stuff
we have good discussion today about the date on how to use it you might actually
need to create was it 2060 step and then you are somewhere and it’s actually the
data value is zero because it’s not yet there to create actions to make the
chains and it’s also sometimes good to think about it
don’t you have to also follow up the data we inside that you create actually
creating actions it doesn’t have to be that the data is wrong but it just might
be that they say oh no competencies there’s no culture but really following
up that it create actions otherwise it’s it’s Seattle value cool I
think that you are either lying or the I’ve been doing a pretty good job
because it sounds sounds like almost too good to be true from that so if
consultants is that point I think that data a data and measuring and all that
it’s often used as an after thought rather than then like it to a spark for
innovation in the beginning which is where insights as possible then it
actually could play like up like a much larger role we’re kind of near and then
then I do when I do one touch the likes of plastic sustainability it’s a bigger
as well before company operating like button or you know field that is
probably going electric and at least more autonomous and affected world at
that time I think that that’s fairly fairly clear you guys are thriving on
kind of sustainability and you need to do that if not for anything else then
for the sake of efficiency and I’m not saying that you would rather other
motivations as well but whatever role does assist in ability like actual
sustainability play also in on a mining industry basically disgusted the global
trends are are there so they still many conflicts currently that actually have
both laws and Covenants and they’re legally call it what what I’m equipment
how a sustainable equipment has to be but it’s also a little bit about culture
company values so we have basically selected that where we operate and maybe
we don’t operate and it’s also something that would be are looking always that a
VCS it’s the safety aspects of how can we improve something all of our releases
we are kind of looking looking to save deaths and stunning the safety data to
make it more more safe there on the ground as well as more sustainable still
it is a little bit about driven by efficiency I must say because it’s it’s
a big huge topic is is the how how much equipments on using gas or diesel or air
under underground it’s driven by the suspect apart by their efficiency but if
it’s for the good then it’s it’s good for for environment as well
yeah yeah we also I think the anonymous boss group has been silent of this
sustainability manifest men like 2023 and have a lot of herbs in this multi
products produced meeting targets I think when a closer like what we do is
some difference that well that we’ve been proud of the work with NGOs for
saving the oldsters that make them clear the places we kind of are responsible
sending people out to madness or other the oceans so it’s trying to make sure
that then we play with professional company over TV the kind of
organizations will help us and preserve the poster so that might be good and
we’ve been developing content for the mobile application we sort of how do you
actually are able to share your views what kind of species are you having
are you seeing to picture them foreign species in a diving area that shouldn’t
be there you can port though so that’s kind of all kinds of ideas that we can
actually help and through our brand that’s pretty cool with you if you
whatsoever is going off for obviously running enough time that’s pretty cool
if a user for us consented for the purpose is to actually congregate and
collect data well as we are cooperative not in are
listed are privately owned and actually the home and said I’m sustainability the
next was social responsibilities in a DNA of Opie in a sense what we’ve been
you know doing is high-level big disgusting about ethical design what
does it mean for us as the designers or how does that should be strongly now you
know services or products obviously as as the financial service provider we
have for example school for young people for managing their personal finance and
you’re not teaching people to actually on the financial well-being which is one
of the part of holistic well-being is financial well-being yeah we have good results on just four
months retraining and you’ll be good son but yes also if our guests excellent the
core of our brand is about social responsibility so and as we are
cooperative that also strong in our decision-making and everything so it’s
kind of everyday life for us but we’ll be discussing about what is the ethical
desire for us and how to be doing and so it’s not kind of easy task to program
all right the final final thing like a snappy snappy serve one-liner or you can
answer or if you want but I just want one thing out that amidst all this all
this even chaotic and maybe sometimes even to a fast-paced innovation and
trying to develop your organization squad and try to make sure that the
customers get their value and everything is beautifully human centric and
everything like that but if you if you had to pick one thing to serve and this
this great conversation with what would you pick but how will you stay relevant
in the future and then one thing like what more what will help you gain role
of us because if you don’t stay relevant then nothing else really matters doesn’t
I really like the promise name romantic so with all these them means of all
things that we need to do and do a problem I think still you need to be
able to spot romantic otherwise you don’t have a brand and you don’t have
something to the people to aspire to so we really like to take the designer
policy it’s about magic India I would say that if you solve a customer need in
a way that no other has done that ever lived I was saying that to be able to
change and learn continuously that the way to to keep yourself really content
comfortable at one cool thanks a lot I think that that concludes the
conversation but thanks workers we’ll have Q&A but before that maybe a lot of
forces in place you

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